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greg555
Bronze Member

USA
224 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2006 :  2:43:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  [Reply to Topic]  | [Reply w/ Quote]
I thank you all for replying to my cant write question.
Next: If I wrote a song with the chords C maj A minor and G major,
and I wrote down all the notes or tones that those chords contain, would all of those tones be included in the scale that would make up the song? In other words If I played lead or melody using those notes to the chords mentioned above would it be musically correct?

Greg


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garrigus
Moderator

USA
14504 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2006 :  3:31:56 PM  Show Profile  Visit garrigus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Greg,

Yes, that would work, but there can also be a lot more to it than that if you get into studying music theory. If you stuck with those three chords the song would be in the key of C major and use a C major scale.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - http://www.garrigus.com
* Cakewalk SONAR Video Tutorials: https://www.youtube.com/user/ScottGarrigus?sub_confirmation=1
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks
* Publisher of the DigiFreq music recording newsletter: http://www.digifreq.com/
* Publisher of the NewTechReview consumer tech newsletter: http://www.newtechreview.com/
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greg555
Bronze Member

USA
224 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2006 :  11:50:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Scott, I knew those chords were in C thats why I chose them as an example. but I was messing around with some ideas and it seems that my idea changes key's what if I put an idea together on the guitar and like it, but then discovered that the notes and chords didn't match any scale key that I compared it too. (which is what Im seeing right now with some things Im trying.

I tried to get "the complete idiots guide to music theory" at amazon but was not available. and...how do ya have time to monitor all of these post's?

Greg
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garrigus
Moderator

USA
14504 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2006 :  10:58:22 AM  Show Profile  Visit garrigus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Greg,

You must have been looking in the wrong place on Amazon. Here are a couple links that go to a couple books that are available:

* The Complete Idiot's Guide to Music Theory, 2nd Edition
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1592574378/compmedia

* The Complete Idiot's Guide to Music Composition
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1592574033/compmedia

As for my time... I guess I've just learned to manage it very well. Either that or maybe I'm really Superman in disguise.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - http://www.garrigus.com
* Cakewalk SONAR Video Tutorials: https://www.youtube.com/user/ScottGarrigus?sub_confirmation=1
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks
* Publisher of the DigiFreq music recording newsletter: http://www.digifreq.com/
* Publisher of the NewTechReview consumer tech newsletter: http://www.newtechreview.com/
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GBB
Member

22 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2006 :  1:25:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, Scott, I'll vote for "Superman in disquise".

On the subject though: I had a very musically knowledgeable fellow arrange some of my songs. After getting into it, he asked if he could change one note in a couple of the songs and three notes in one other song. Something to do with chord progression. I said yes, but I don't understand it. I got a hunch it takes a lot of study and perserverence to get even the most rudimentary musical theary under your belt.

George
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GK_Studio
Bronze Member

USA
287 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2006 :  7:09:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cmaj => C Dm Em F G Am Bm
Gmaj => G Am Bm C D Em F#m

Could be in either C or G with those cords depending on the emphasis. Of course it could be in C Lydian or G Mixolydian.

Get a good book, but you will need to get a good teacher to steer you... It is easy to think you understand and then WHAM you get hammered by something that should work, but doesn't...




GK_Studio
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Leonard G
Member

USA
21 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2006 :  02:55:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greg,

The only note from the C major scale you'd not have in your melody using just those 3 chords is the "F"....and I definitely concur with the prior comment about seeking out a teacher when learning theory. Some of it's very self-explanatory, but then some makes very little sense at all until seen in the larger context. I drill a lot of traditional theory with my students, and I tell them it's a lot like the rules of a sport - - - you can have a lot of fun with a net and a volleyball and never need the "rules" of the game...but if you really want to play volleyball, you're gonna have to take some time to learn the actual rules of it. Many great musicians have phenomenal musical instincts that never require them to put labels on anything...they can just "play". But for a lot of folks, they'll be even more creative when they have a thorough understanding of the basics, and can learn how to move beyond them.
In another sense, it's like studying math...everything is cumulative, and the more you learn, the more questions and possibilites will be opened. (Don't know if the math anology's a selling point, or a distraction...hehe)

All those years of classical piano did NOT get my fingers and ears ready to twirl knobs and push a mouse-driven-slider....SIGH....
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Courtney
Member

70 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2007 :  3:12:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit Courtney's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Greg,
In general (because nothing is written in stone when it comes to music), you will find many song melodies more naturally follow, but not exclusively, the notes of the Triad of the chord (key) you are writing your song in. Basically, a chord's Triad is the 1, 3 and 5 notes of its scale. Using GK Studios illustration for an example, you can see that in C major a C chord will be composed of the notes C, E, G. (Look at the the first, third and fifth positions, ignoring the minor notation.) The key of C major is straight forward because it contains no sharps or flats so you don't have to worry about those. Many of the best selling songs have used only a simple three chord progression. It sounds like your song utilizes a 1, 6m, 5 chord progression, meaning you are using the notes in those positions on the C major scale to construct your chords. As you progress through constructing your song's melody try the notes of the Triad of each chord.

Wikipedia has some good info. Try a search on 'Major Scale.' Good Writing!
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greg555
Bronze Member

USA
224 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2007 :  12:21:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks leonard, but I noticed that F is included in the C major scale then why would it not be included in the chords mentioned?

Greg

quote:
Originally posted by Leonard G

Greg,

The only note from the C major scale you'd not have in your melody using just those 3 chords is the "F"....and I definitely concur with the prior comment about seeking out a teacher when learning theory. Some of it's very self-explanatory, but then some makes very little sense at all until seen in the larger context. I drill a lot of traditional theory with my students, and I tell them it's a lot like the rules of a sport - - - you can have a lot of fun with a net and a volleyball and never need the "rules" of the game...but if you really want to play volleyball, you're gonna have to take some time to learn the actual rules of it. Many great musicians have phenomenal musical instincts that never require them to put labels on anything...they can just "play". But for a lot of folks, they'll be even more creative when they have a thorough understanding of the basics, and can learn how to move beyond them.
In another sense, it's like studying math...everything is cumulative, and the more you learn, the more questions and possibilites will be opened. (Don't know if the math anology's a selling point, or a distraction...hehe)

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Courtney
Member

70 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2007 :  6:55:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit Courtney's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Greg,
Here's something to ponder:

Take a look at the three chords that form your song and the notes that compose each of their triads:
C = C, E, G
Am = A, C, E
G = G, B, D

Now look at all of the notes composing the chords you have chosen for your key of C. Which note is missing?

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NWSmith
Member

USA
82 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2007 :  09:34:04 AM  Show Profile  Visit NWSmith's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Very cool discussion. I am a primarily a guitar player who does not have a musical theory background. One thing that really helped me was learning some of the basics of piano.

Song ideas based on guitar chords have come to life on the keyboard for me. Messing around on a keyboard helps bring out ideas for different harmonies and helps to bring out new ideas for the melody. It is amazing to me how much a song will change when you add one note.

I think the most important 1 aspect, no matter what instrument you play, is to experiment. Use the so-called "rules" as a guideline - but know that rules can be broken.

http://www.soundclick.com/northwestsmith
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GK_Studio
Bronze Member

USA
287 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2007 :  12:33:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, just look at the greats that don't know what they are doing, but are still considered amazing musicians...

Well, I can't think of any right now... but I'm sure they are out there... somewhere...

GK_Studio
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gvdv
Member

45 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2007 :  11:10:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
GK,
John Lennon and Paul McCartney, George Harrison and Ringo Starr couldn't (and Paul and Ringo still can't) read or write music.

Pretty good examples, if you ask me.

GVDV
quote:
Originally posted by GK_Studio

Yeah, just look at the greats that don't know what they are doing, but are still considered amazing musicians...

Well, I can't think of any right now... but I'm sure they are out there... somewhere...


"If the Beatles or the '60s had a message, it was 'Learn to Swim'. And once you've learned - swim".
John Lennon
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GK_Studio
Bronze Member

USA
287 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2007 :  12:42:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Although I would like to sell as many albumns as the Beatles, lets not confuse popularity with being an excellent musician. Britney Spears etc...

Beatles music is catchy and enjoyable to listen to, but anyone who picks up a guitar or sits down at a piano and says "I hope to be able to play Piano or Bass like Paul" will be wondering what's next after 18 mo.


GK_Studio
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MrMark
Member

USA
60 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2008 :  3:41:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit MrMark's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GK_Studio


Beatles music is catchy and enjoyable to listen to, but anyone who picks up a guitar or sits down at a piano and says "I hope to be able to play Piano or Bass like Paul" will be wondering what's next after 18 mo.


I've been playing guitar for three decades, no formal training, but with some awareness and observation and reading, you inadvertently pick up a lot. I just bought a bass in October. I'll let you know when I can play like Paul

www.soundclick.com/markcourter
guitar: '75 Les Paul Custom
bass: 2007 Ibanez GSR200
Sonar SHS6XL
Line 6 Toneport UX1
Unbridled Enthusiasm
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