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 IK Miroslav MIDI question
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feldman1982
Bronze Member

252 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2008 :  1:12:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  [Reply to Topic]  | [Reply w/ Quote]
(thanks for the edit)


Hello.

I need some help with my SONAR 7 PE project, using Miroslav VST.
To make a long story short, I read the manual, loaded the sounds, and everything is great. I know how to put several different instruments on say, Channel 1, to make nice layers :)

However, there also lies my problem. I've only used MIDI sounds/channels with external synths (i.e. MOTIF, Triton, etc.) - keep that in mind please.

Please look at my pictures, and help me figure out why every time I 'playback' this track in SONAR, it only plays Channel 1 sounds (ignoring all other instruments in the Miroslav/Sampletank Interface)...?

But when I click on each channel separately within Miroslav, the sounds are OK, and the built in-Miroslav keyboard responds to different instruments' sounds correctly.

I put each instrument on a different channel number (1,2,3,etc) and yet I go to add notes, and each voice sounds great (only on the Miroslav keyboard, NOT in piano roll - the piano roll still ONLY sounds channel 1 instruments, always). Then I hit playback. Then it all merges into "channel 1" anyway, thus ignoring everything else I added except channel 1 sounds. What am I doing wrong?

Can someone with MIDI knowledge tell me what I have to do to 'hear' all my channels in Miroslav for playback in SONAR using the track/VST? I am not using a MIDI controller or external sounds, so I don't need to worry about the 'Omni' setting, right? I didn't think I could/should worry about that setting. It's just my computer, SONAR piano roll, and Miroslav's interface/keyboard/sounds.

Please help..... ;\

Could anyone tell me the settings that I have to change in order to hear my different instruments playback at the same time, ch. 1-16 in Miroslav? I read the manual, and I still kind of feel stupid ;0

thank you so much for your help!!

*note: I've tried Miroslav as both Synth AND FX (as the manual says is possible)....what do I need to do? ;\

Do I have to use "enable MIDI OUTPUT" and then make MIDI tracks for everyone instrument anyways?....that seems a little off....I mean, 16 MIDI tracks added in addition to the VST? What am I missing?
















Edited by - feldman1982 on 11/07/2008 5:00:09 PM
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dB Mania
Member

77 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2008 :  6:55:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you want to layer sounds in Miroslav then setup the midi channels for each layer on the same midi channel such as channel "1" for all of them (the sounds you want layered)

I don't use that Miroslav VSTi if the manual says it can be used in FX's, if so then do so by >> insert "Effects" << on any track you wish, such as you would insert a reverb plugin for example.

PC: Abit Pro35. CPU: Quad 3.0. Ram: 2.Gig. H/Drives: 2x Seagates (C:Apps, D:Audio). Audio/Midi Interface: Edirol FA-66. DAW: SONAR. VSTi: SonikSynth 2.1, SampleTank.2.5.XL. KitCore Deluxe. Addictive Drums. VST: Ozone.3, Ozone.4, Voxengo, Kjaerhus, Melodyne, T-RackS

Edited by - dB Mania on 11/07/2008 6:56:56 PM
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feldman1982
Bronze Member

252 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2008 :  11:45:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Umm..thank you for the reply, but...

I wrote:

"I know how to put several different instruments on say, Channel 1, to make nice layers :)"

in the first part of my post, did you miss it? I appreciate the attempt, but I am seriously lost :(

I already know how to make layers. I want to have independent parts on the same instance of Miroslav. In the Miroslav VST, there are 16 'channels', or parts, so what am I doing wrong? Every time I go to 'edit' the instruments in Miroslav say, channels 2-16, the sounds are only that of channel 1 (i.e. all i hear is channel one sounds on playback, regardless of other voices, BUT in the VST itself, the keyboard plays back on all voices fine.) So on input, I hear them using the built in on-screen keyboard, but playback is only channel one sounds.

So, as I said, can someone please help me understand why I can't use my Miroslav VST and 'hear' all my instruments back on one piano roll/instance of VST? I mean, 16 MIDI channels in one VST, and yet all I hear on playback is Channel one. What's wrong? ;\

Do I have to have adding 16 'new' MIDI tracks and route ALL 16 'outs' from my VST, just to hear each instrument separate?? Why bother having 16 channels in my VST if I can't hear them convieniently on 1 track (i.e. 1 Miroslav instance)....

please help...I'm a quick learner, just give me the steps...I really need to just learn this setup, and I can then apply it elsewhere too :)

anyone? Scott?.....

thank you....I really appreciate the time it takes to answer a post like this.

I've tried everything, why does this keep happening with my MIDI routing/VST?


Edited by - feldman1982 on 11/07/2008 11:48:07 PM
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lawapa
Moderator

USA
2106 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2008 :  09:02:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One singular instance of a vst with a possible 16 different voices.

Each voice on a seperate midi channel number up to the max of 16.

Each channel number should show up as a different color in piano roll view.

To add notes to one channel select a note color of the channel you wish to add notes to. Then Enter a note and see if the color is the same. I believe Sonar will always default to midi channel 1. So you have to focus Sonar to the channel number you wish to edit/add to.

I never set up a multimbral set. I tend to use seperate instances for each voice. This might not work for you as sequencing large orchestral works does not need seperate processing for each individual sound.

If your using a external keyboard controller you will have to change the send channel each time you wish to add notes to a single channel number other than the default number 1.

Love to make that music,as well I love to tweak,Make my own sample sets
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feldman1982
Bronze Member

252 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2008 :  1:21:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yes yes!

that is what i was looking for. So, it *is* possible (and often the best choice) to have 1 instance of a VST (16 channels) and 16 voices in the piano roll. Yes, SONAR seems to default to channel 1, but how do I 'enter' notes into SONAR piano roll for channels 2-16? How do I see the colors? I mean, I know how to actually enter notes in the roll, but selecting channels in the roll, i do not.

*note*
I know how to right click a note in the piano roll, properties, then 'channel = x', I got that.

Is that the ONLY way to do it, I have to select a big group of notes and do it each at a time to channel 2, say? I can't enter "channel 2" mode, whereas every click after that will be in channel 2. Can someone tell me if this is correct, I may be mistaken....you can ONLY do 'going back' channel fixing in the piano roll? Not 'pre-note entry' channel choosing? that seems odd....I mean, I guess I could use the even inspector after entry to do the channel change, but that is a little frustrating. So, I have to hear the sounds from other channels while I input, but then once I change the properties 'back' to where they belong, the notes will sound correct? I see....
So, event inspector vs. note properties....fun :)

thanks SO much for clearing this up :)

and thank you to everyone who reads my posts and tries to help! I really appreciate it. Can someone just simply confirm that it is NOT possible to select a MIDI channel in the piano roll PRIOR to entering notes for that channel? It has to be done 'after', by doing note properties or event inspector....?
*assuming I am not using a controller*
I can use a controller, send a voice at a time NO problems :)

this is just assuming i'm on the road w/ no PCR near me :)
THANKS :)

Edited by - feldman1982 on 11/08/2008 1:47:27 PM
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dB Mania
Member

77 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2008 :  2:52:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tried posting again but this forum flipped out and I lost my post.

I use one softsynth per instance! I rarely use multi-channel mode (multitimbral). If you want to use multi-timbral (multi-midi-channels in the one softsynth VSTi) then I find it best using a "keyboard" simply dial in the channel ((change the midi chn via the keyboard itself)) corresponding to the sound you wish to play in the softsynth. Midi Chn-1: Piano, Chn-2: Violin, and so on. This works for PRV too using the Keyboard initially even-though you intend to edit in the PRV using a mouse......

SONAR: In the Track set it to "omni" midi chn (global all chn) or midi channel 1, which can be changed to another midi channel to correspond with the midi channel you want to access in the softsynth. (Tip: Use the "I" shortcut key to toggle open/close track inspector for quick access)

I hope you figure this out! I'm sorry I can't be of much help.

I rarely use softsynths in multi-midi-channel modes because often I need layers for example: layering various string sounds to create a rich, lush string section. Playing chords (harmonies) which of course can also be done by editing in PRV using a mouse.

-

PC: Abit Pro35. CPU: Quad 3.0. Ram: 2.Gig. H/Drives: 2x Seagates (C:Apps, D:Audio). Audio/Midi Interface: Edirol FA-66. DAW: SONAR. VSTi: SonikSynth 2.1, SampleTank.2.5.XL. KitCore Deluxe. Addictive Drums. VST: Ozone.3, Ozone.4, Voxengo, Kjaerhus, Melodyne, T-RackS

Edited by - dB Mania on 11/08/2008 3:37:19 PM
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feldman1982
Bronze Member

252 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2008 :  4:34:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
much help?? :)

you did EVERYthing to help me!

As I said before, I finally can use my send/channel 1-16 from my MOTIF keyboard no problem in SONAR, 100% on ONE instance of Miroslav.

That being said, as far as 'on the fly', with no MIDI controller, I will gladly accept that I have to use the event inspector and/or note properties to simply change the MIDI channel/instrument in my VST :)

THANK YOU SO MUCH, everyone!!! SONAR is the BEST....I can't wait to get SONAR 8!!!

-F
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lawapa
Moderator

USA
2106 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2008 :  6:40:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When in a multitimbral mode using a singular instance of a vst you can focus Sonar to a individual channel by clicking on a note of the channel you wish to add notes to.

This will work when using singular instances or tracks as well. By adding a single note if the channel didn't take, change it in the window and every note after than should be to same channel if you don't shift the focus to another track/channel.

Using large orchestral vst's you might not need to have each sound to it's own track. But if you prefer to eq/effect instruments individually grouping them to a single instance makes that a tad more difficult.

I've heard its possible using I think Kontakt to add effects to midi channels within a group individually but I've never tried that. If your using the Kontakt player I think you'd at least need to isolate a instrument to a track for special treatment.

Just like dB I don't use multitimbral mode. Each voice has it's own track. And each track has it's own color in the PRV.

Love to make that music,as well I love to tweak,Make my own sample sets
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feldman1982
Bronze Member

252 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2008 :  8:06:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lawapa



Just like dB I don't use multitimbral mode. Each voice has it's own track. And each track has it's own color in the PRV.




I don't follow....
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garrigus
Moderator

USA
14510 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2008 :  12:33:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit garrigus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
If you want to use a single instance of a soft synth and use it in multitimbral mode, you must set each individual sound inside the soft synth to a different MIDI channel. Then you need to have a separate MIDI track for each different sound and each MIDI track should be set to a different MIDI channel to correspond with the sound you want it to drive inside the soft synth.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - http://www.garrigus.com
* Cakewalk SONAR Video Tutorials: https://www.youtube.com/user/ScottGarrigus?sub_confirmation=1
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks
* Publisher of the DigiFreq music recording newsletter: http://www.digifreq.com/
* Publisher of the NewTechReview consumer tech newsletter: http://www.newtechreview.com/
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feldman1982
Bronze Member

252 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2008 :  4:30:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OH...

I think I get it now. So, once you set each separate channel in your single-instance VST, you have to create MIDI tracks in your project, and then setup the /outputs to control each of them 1-16...no?

So, to be neat, probably then you could also make a track folder setup with all those MIDI tracks within, right?

I think I'm getting it now...thanks again everyone!


F
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garrigus
Moderator

USA
14510 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2008 :  11:11:58 AM  Show Profile  Visit garrigus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yeah, that's what I do... although, I'll usually use track folders for each instrument group. So I'll have one soft synth instance that maybe represents a horns section. I'll put that soft synth track along with all its related MIDI tracks into a single folder, etc.

It makes keeping things organized much easier...

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - http://www.garrigus.com
* Cakewalk SONAR Video Tutorials: https://www.youtube.com/user/ScottGarrigus?sub_confirmation=1
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks
* Publisher of the DigiFreq music recording newsletter: http://www.digifreq.com/
* Publisher of the NewTechReview consumer tech newsletter: http://www.newtechreview.com/
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