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dB Mania
Member

77 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2008 :  11:37:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  [Reply to Topic]  | [Reply w/ Quote]
I'm thinking of getting Native Instruments - BandStand! For $99 smackaroos it's pretty darn good, the online samples (demos) sounds OK!. Anyone else have NI BandStand?



PC: Abit Pro35. CPU: Quad 3.0. Ram: 2.Gig. H/Drives: 2x Seagates (C:Apps, D:Audio). Audio/Midi Interface: Edirol FA-66. DAW: SONAR. VSTi: SonikSynth 2.1, SampleTank.2.5.XL. KitCore Deluxe. Addictive Drums. VST: Ozone.3, Ozone.4, Voxengo, Kjaerhus, Melodyne, T-RackS
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lawapa
Moderator

USA
2106 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2008 :  12:01:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I go for the colossus thing. One very large set. It is 5 times the price but it has a library well worth the price with I'd bet articulations on the instruments.

Band stand is a General midi app with a good sound set but it lacks the in depth stuff that sets the instruments apart from rest.

Having articulations on the instruments gives your sequence a life that a simple set does not have.

Love to make that music,as well I love to tweak,Make my own sample sets
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otto
Platinum Member

2733 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2008 :  12:02:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've got it, and got some kind of a deal on it, can't recall what. What is nice about it is that it has all the various types of GM including GM2, Yamaha's take on the concept, and I think others as well. Sometimes I play old standard midi files for backing while practicing, or playing with ideas, so it's nice to have the quality as good as one can expect from GM. It never really lived up to much, and I've never looked for GM2 versions of things, so maybe they'd be better. GM always seemed to be a non-pro consumer thing, but I think for any dissing of it, it's still an interesting concept. It should have been developed and improved on, and we should be looking at something like GM9 right now, rather than GM2. There were just too many variants. Roland, Yamaha, and then the standard. I guess Roland called it GS, well, something like that. What it needs is standardized effects for each track, and some kind of mix standardization.

Edited by - otto on 04/06/2008 12:02:56 AM
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dB Mania
Member

77 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2008 :  12:34:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Something more colossus like Kontakt 3 or Komplete Classic? ($449.00)

I notice there doesn't seem to be any sound editing with BandStand! There's the basic reverb and chorus only?

I don't know! I like to tweak things, shape things, get right down into the guts of the sound! Filters, Mods, Envelopes and all that stuff. But I want a good bed of bread n butter sounds such as Drums, Bass, Grand Pianos, Organs, Strings, Horns.

PC: Abit Pro35. CPU: Quad 3.0. Ram: 2.Gig. H/Drives: 2x Seagates (C:Apps, D:Audio). Audio/Midi Interface: Edirol FA-66. DAW: SONAR. VSTi: SonikSynth 2.1, SampleTank.2.5.XL. KitCore Deluxe. Addictive Drums. VST: Ozone.3, Ozone.4, Voxengo, Kjaerhus, Melodyne, T-RackS
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otto
Platinum Member

2733 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2008 :  02:55:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you have Kontakt 2 or above, you can bring Bandstand samples into that and do whatever you want. For a GM program though, that isn't what anyone buys a GM program for. If you want sophistication and high quality samples to play with as a sound designer, then you should be looking at Kontakt 3, which ships with plenty of samples, or Komplete 5 which includes all of this. If you don't know about this stuff by now though, I'd wait and spend your time coming up to speed on music software resources. I spend a lot of time studying the options myself. It's never been a better time for musicians, except that 5 years or 10 will be even better. 33 gigs of samples is the norm now it seems. Eventually I guess all of this stuff will sort out to being very inexpensive, with the rare high end. Prices to features seem to be getting driven down relentlessly.
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dB Mania
Member

77 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2008 :  04:59:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hmmm, BandStand does seem too simple and basic but the sounds aren't too bad. I've been doing sound design for decades, I much prefer to tweak n shape my own sounds rather than use ridged presets and I know that EQ and effects may work with blending preset sounds in a mix. The idea of having thousands of presets that most would never see the light of day urks me. Anyway! I do plan on getting Sonar PE, it comes with Dimension and Rapture, including a few other synths mostly which have good sound shaping features (envelopes, filters, etc).

I guess in this case, it's not what you've got it's how you tweak it.

PC: Abit Pro35. CPU: Quad 3.0. Ram: 2.Gig. H/Drives: 2x Seagates (C:Apps, D:Audio). Audio/Midi Interface: Edirol FA-66. DAW: SONAR. VSTi: SonikSynth 2.1, SampleTank.2.5.XL. KitCore Deluxe. Addictive Drums. VST: Ozone.3, Ozone.4, Voxengo, Kjaerhus, Melodyne, T-RackS
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otto
Platinum Member

2733 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2008 :  05:44:28 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
BTW, where in the world are you posting from? I get around quite a bit myself.

When it comes to natural instrument emulations, I don't see much desire to screw with that. I buy samplesets specifically because the developer has worked out the emulation for a particular sampler app so it is dead on. That requires real specialized experience and a lot of time I don't have. It's not like playing with analog synth sound design after all. I want a Rhodes electric piano to sound and behave just like a real Rhodes, for example. The last thing I want to do is get in there and screw with it. Same with a trumpet, or a cello, etc.

Edited by - otto on 04/06/2008 05:45:00 AM
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dB Mania
Member

77 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2008 :  06:31:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm from another planet, and this wine I've been drinking really has a kick to it. WHOA *almost falls out of chair*

OK! OK! I'm in the United States, waiting up for my wife to come home from nightshift work.

Sampled sounds are OK but at times for example (1): a piano with great tone across the octave ranges but with an annoying little clunk on the attack that may not sit so well, I would like to edit out that clunk just a little bit. (2): a violin attack at times needs to be adjusted, which reminds me of a song someone posted on another forum the violins sounded great but the string attack was a just a little bit slow

Oh well! Guess I'm getting too fussy in my old age.

PC: Abit Pro35. CPU: Quad 3.0. Ram: 2.Gig. H/Drives: 2x Seagates (C:Apps, D:Audio). Audio/Midi Interface: Edirol FA-66. DAW: SONAR. VSTi: SonikSynth 2.1, SampleTank.2.5.XL. KitCore Deluxe. Addictive Drums. VST: Ozone.3, Ozone.4, Voxengo, Kjaerhus, Melodyne, T-RackS
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garrigus
Moderator

USA
14512 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2008 :  09:54:24 AM  Show Profile  Visit garrigus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The reason to buy a GM synth like Bandstand is for playing MIDI tunes that have been specifically written for the GM sound set. This makes it easy to exchange MIDI files and is also used a lot for Karaoke.

Colossus, Kontakt, etc. do not realistically reproduce GM MIDI tunes because the soundset isn't close enough to the GM spec. This means you have to do a lot of tweaking to get the GM MIDI tune to sound like it should if you're playing it with a non-GM soundset.

So if you don't need GM and you want to tweak, then you don't need Bandstand and Kontakt is a great alternative.

But if you're getting Sonar PE, then you should wait because like you mentioned, it comes with a lot of synths in the package (including the TTS-1, which is a GM synth).

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - http://www.garrigus.com
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otto
Platinum Member

2733 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2008 :  3:12:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bandstand is going to sound a lot better than TTS-1 though, and it has all the various manufacturers proprietary GM schemes as well. I think Bandstand also allows for effects on each GM track, not just overall for the mix. Can't remember on that. It's particularly nice coupled with Band in the Box.

Edited by - otto on 04/06/2008 3:13:18 PM
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dB Mania
Member

77 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2008 :  5:53:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree, for anyone who wants a good set of GM sounds coupled with something like BITB then that's OK.

As for my needs? hmmm think I'll pass on that.

Which reminds me, it's a pity Steinberg Sequel didn't include VST options for adding VST plugins. Instead users wanting more would have to purchase Cubase Studio or 4 for more advance editing and VST addons of Sequel projects. Duh! Bit of a nasty catch 22. Me no like that, it would have been better to add options in Sequel for VST capabilities as an upgrade at a more affordable price.

PC: Abit Pro35. CPU: Quad 3.0. Ram: 2.Gig. H/Drives: 2x Seagates (C:Apps, D:Audio). Audio/Midi Interface: Edirol FA-66. DAW: SONAR. VSTi: SonikSynth 2.1, SampleTank.2.5.XL. KitCore Deluxe. Addictive Drums. VST: Ozone.3, Ozone.4, Voxengo, Kjaerhus, Melodyne, T-RackS
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Cableaddict
New Member

3 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  7:57:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
IMO, the sounds in Bandstand are pathetic. Beyond pathetic.

The drums are especially bad, though luckily there is a decent GM-compatible drumkit included with Battery. NI has completely abandoned this plugin, so don't expect any improvements. Ever.

I used to use Gigasampler, and there was a VERY good third-party GM / XG library for it. I can't remember who made it, as it's been many years since I used it, but it's library was around 500 meg. Actual quality sounds.

I've been searching for years for a similar setup for any other Windows-compatible sampler, but I couldn't find a thing.

I'm glad to have found this thread. The Wave Xtable VI and Sonic Synth Omnisythm module both sound promising. Sadly, neither can be auditioned before-hand. You'd think they'ed at least provide mp3 examples.

Does anyone know of a GM / XG library for Kontakt?

Edited by - Cableaddict on 01/23/2009 7:41:26 PM
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lawapa
Moderator

USA
2106 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  10:11:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
GM is GM.

You can take a GM sequence and go through it track by track and basically revoice it. But this requires some tweaks to the control settings per each track if volume automation/Patch/bank change or effect settings are used.

There is/or was a GM set at sonivox that is 500mb. This is GM and won't knock your sox off but should be several steps above most you've tried.

If your a GM user and need a good player with better than average sounds Sonivox should still have this GM set. Things change and I do not keep up with GM players as I do not use them.

Love to make that music,as well I love to tweak,Make my own sample sets
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Cableaddict
New Member

3 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  4:20:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
THanks, lawapa

Sonivox does still sell that GM bank. They even have audio demos, and they sound pretty darned good. I just ordered the thing.

-It remains to be seen, though, if this bank will automatically respond to the GM style-player's commands (instrument selection, reverb amounts, volumes, etc) when loaded into Kontakt-3. Even the girl at Sonivox wasn't sure.
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lawapa
Moderator

USA
2106 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2009 :  6:52:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kontakt I believe is not GM compatible. But I'm not sure. But it will respond to every possible control message except maybe patch/bank change because it's a sample based synth.

I do not have Kontakt and if it does support patch/bank change it would be the exception as loading samples during playback is a tricky endeavor.

GM features while great for playing back pre made sequences have limits that gum up the works for high end synths that are not designed to handle the control data. But you can edit this out and get good results if you take the time to do so.

Ask sonivox to recommend a GM compatable player. They are out there.

Love to make that music,as well I love to tweak,Make my own sample sets
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Cableaddict
New Member

3 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2009 :  4:05:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lawapa

Kontakt I believe is not GM compatible. But I'm not sure. But it will respond to every possible control message except maybe patch/bank change because it's a sample based synth.




Right. The girl at Sonivox said the same thing, regarding Kontakt-2. However, she was "pretty sure" that Kontakt-3 has some new features that may let the GM messages through to a soundfont bank. I called I, but they have no idea. (big surprise)

I guess I'll know in a few days, when my Sonivox soundfont banks arrive. If K3 doesn't do it, I indeed did get a list of other VSTi's that should work. Making progress slowly....
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