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dB Mania
Member

77 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2008 :  01:02:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  [Reply to Topic]  | [Reply w/ Quote]
What Daw(s) Are You Using?

Just out of curiosity I'm interested in discussing various Daws, each having their strengths, weaknesses and what is you wish list of features in your current Daw?

I have used SONAR Home Studio 4XL, being from old school I use it as an Audio MultiTrack, usually I would never exceed more than 24 audio tracks.

Anyway! I haven't been recording for quite a while (2 years or so) Soon I and plan to get a new computer: Quad-Core - P35 Mobo - 2x,H/Drives - 2.GB,Ram - PCI-E,Graphics/Silent - WinXP, along with my Edirol FA-66 this should be more than enough for my needs.

Having to expense most of my budget for a new computer, that leaves me less in terms of getting software, I was thinking of getting Sonar Home Studio 6XL and later on (two months later) get iZotope Ozone (by then I would at least two project completed! I'm hoping HS6XL should be able to handle Ozone on the master busses since that all I intend to use it for (Mastering)

But there's other apps out there such as Sony Acid Pro (with it's new Audio MultiTrack feature I guess that's a bonus) but can it handle 24 to 32 audio tracks on a Quad-Core system?. Why I'm thinking of other software besides Sonar? is because I was thinking of delving into Loop Based Electronica genres, maybe Kinetic2, Project5 or Sequel will be good, actually I was thinking of getting Sequel, Kinetic2 or Project5 for my wife since she would use it mostly for fun although she does have pretty good skills on the piano (she use to have a Casio keyboard but it died), so now I have a studio setup with a fairly decent master midi keyboard (Roland) she can use that hooked up to the computer along with software (Kinetic2, Project5 or Sequel). I would use that setup mainly as a quick sketch pad basis for new songs and with fast n easy tempo match song arranger, the idea is for uninterrupted creativity workflow. Ableton Live is good too but it's a little more expensive although there's a lite version I may consider that too.

Reaper?, oops! Sorry! I forget to mention the Reaper, it's a pretty nifty DAW for around 200 bucks it's cool but I would need to add some plugins and I'm not too keen on it's workflow, maybe because I'm use to using Sonar.

I figured, outside of ProTools.HD there are three Daw's that comes to mind and far less costly. . Cubase.4, Logic and Sonar.PE. Eventually (into Feb/March 2009) I might get Sonar.PE and by then I guess version.8 will be available. I hope Cakewalk focuses more on refining what is already there.

Hmm I haven't mentioned Adobe Audition, anyone here use it? just reading up on it's specs are pretty impressive such as, iZotope, group editing and other features. But on a good Quad Core system how well does Audition stack up, can it handle 24 to 32 tracks with convoluted reverb, EQ and Comps on the master busses?

For mastering? I think Sony SoundForge looks pretty cool, although mastering can be done in HS6XL alone along with iZotope (or similar master plugins) that would definitely up the ante, or Sonar.PE would do suffice.


Anyway! What Daw(s) Are You Using?


btw, Scott, I purchased Sonar7 Power Book @ Amazon, it's an excellent book. :)



PC: Abit Pro35. CPU: Quad 3.0. Ram: 2.Gig. H/Drives: 2x Seagates (C:Apps, D:Audio). Audio/Midi Interface: Edirol FA-66. DAW: SONAR. VSTi: SonikSynth 2.1, SampleTank.2.5.XL. KitCore Deluxe. Addictive Drums. VST: Ozone.3, Ozone.4, Voxengo, Kjaerhus, Melodyne, T-RackS
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otto
Platinum Member

2728 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2008 :  01:28:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm using most of the various DAWs, though some of them are now getting a bit behind on the versions. Regarding Audition, I've been using it since Cool Edit Pro v1 and I've always loved this program. Just upgraded to Audition 3, but I can't tell you how it stacks up to a large stress on computer resources. As for mastering, Audition 3, and even the earlier versions, have excellent mastering tools built in. The program originally was way ahead of its time. I've got Sound Forge 7, but I still end up using Audition much of the time. If you can get an earlier version for cheap, it's still going to be very powerful, and the upgrade from Audition 1 to 3 is still just $99 and less with discounts. It's a very inexpensive program for the power, and probably doesn't get the respect because it isn't overpriced. I'm not talking it up over other DAWs though. Each one has its merits. Bang for the buck though, it's incredible. It's got some cool loop contruction features too, and comes with a lot of loop content. That seems to be big today, though I'm not that into it beyond using loops for ideas.
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dB Mania
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77 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2008 :  09:38:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Actually I know a friend who is mostly a film editor and works at the ABC Film and Television school, going back about 5 years ago I remember him telling me about CoolEdit Pro being a great program and being new to Multitrack audio it was very easy yet powerful.

I was also thinking about getting NI Instruments plugin, I wonder if Audition 3 will handle Midi Recording?

I know Audition 3 has Midi editing. For many years I've used a hardware sequencer workstation (which I use for backing tracks 'live') for recording I simply record to the software until I have all my tracks and sync them up. In future I'm thinking of doing all my Midi recording and editing in Software because softsynths plugins are cheaper compared to hardware.

PC: Abit Pro35. CPU: Quad 3.0. Ram: 2.Gig. H/Drives: 2x Seagates (C:Apps, D:Audio). Audio/Midi Interface: Edirol FA-66. DAW: SONAR. VSTi: SonikSynth 2.1, SampleTank.2.5.XL. KitCore Deluxe. Addictive Drums. VST: Ozone.3, Ozone.4, Voxengo, Kjaerhus, Melodyne, T-RackS
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otto
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2728 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2008 :  12:49:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Audition 3 adds midi and VSTi support. From what you describe you want to do though, I'd probably go with Sonar myself.
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lawapa
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USA
2106 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2008 :  2:48:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I use both Sonar and Vegas. I do both video and music and find both have cool features. It would take a lot of time to compare each on it's own merits but I'd say to have both is the best of all possible scenarios.

Both of my main DAW's were put together by a pro. Dawbox.com
If your more into music than computers it's not a bad way to go using a pre-configured Daw with the software installed for it's intended purpose. It saves a lot of headache's tweaking a off the self system intended for the Internet or games.

Love to make that music,as well I love to tweak,Make my own sample sets
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otto
Platinum Member

2728 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2008 :  3:13:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Vegas is certainly the program for video. I've got Vegas 7, I guess it's now currently at v8. The latest features I think regard HD video features for the most part. I can't recall regarding Vegas and midi, but I think there either isn't any midi in Vegas or it's barebones. It's funny that Vegas started out as a an audio multi-track product, and then moved into video. It was considered very high-end audio when it first came out as I recall. For a while, it didn't do VST effects, which was a drag. I'm not sure what version finally added them in. It was going to be either Vegas or Premiere, and that just seemed more expensive than it would be worth for how it compared to Vegas. Plus, I'm using Sony videocams, so Vegas is the way to go.

It seems to me that today though, it would be a royal pain to use 2 programs in tandem. The quality is now available to have everything excellent under one app, and that sure is the way to go from the standpoint of project organizing, project file management and backup, and sharing one's work with others for collaborative work.

Edited by - otto on 04/04/2008 3:15:18 PM
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lawapa
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USA
2106 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2008 :  6:58:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll just guess you've never attempted to use Vegas for anything other than video it would be a safe bet. While it does not compare to Sonar in the softsyth department it does have a few advantages.

Sonar includes a notation window and yet if your serious about notation something other than Sonar would likely be in your tool box. Sonar video features might get you by in a pinch once they've been edited/effected outside of Sonar but I wouldn't recommend Sonar for a video guy neither would I recommend Vegas to someone just doing the midi sequencing thing. Adobe Premier just might do everything, at a price and learning curve most would get cold feet about. But Pro's use that app and swear by it once the learning curve is aced. And why not? I'm not recommending one over the other just using what I have to get the job done I've heard this said about Vegas, just the effects and codex that come with Vegas would set you back several thousand and then some standalone. This means Vegas+DVD is a bargain if you do video.

Vegas as a straight forward audio app would be hard to beat. It's old school though and different from Sonar. And well I'm glad it is. I would not trade either one away.

Love to make that music,as well I love to tweak,Make my own sample sets
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otto
Platinum Member

2728 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2008 :  9:13:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You have to understand the difference between never having used something, and having used it a long time ago. When Vegas first came out, it was audio only, and I bought it and used it for a multi-track audio program, but I was enjoying Cool Edit 2 Pro that had gone multi-track in version 2 I believe, and I just kept going back to that for audio. I think this was still in the time that I also was using Cakewalk Pro Audio 9, just to put a date to it. Sonar might have just come along. I was mostly having trouble getting my computer to give me good results though. So that was constantly limiting things. Then Vegas shifted to video, and I just stopped thinking of it as an audio multi-track program. As I recall, it just didn't seem as easy and straightforward to use in later version for audio, and at some point, I started working with Sonar 2 Producer for audio and midi. That or Cool Edit Pro v2.1. I just kept going back to that Cool Edit program, each time they improved it. Vegas always seemed to be lagging on audio after it first came out.
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lawapa
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USA
2106 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2008 :  12:28:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No doubt Vegas is not as intuitive. Yet in track tools are very good. In fact it does take some getting used to the way it works. I think the program has features that assume you understand audio a tad better than most users do. I still have a amateur understanding of the higher level functions. Just enough to get by doing what I do.

But if I want to sequence anything Sonar is my only choice. I've not once attemped that in Vegas. I guess I should but why when I'm so comfortable with Sonar. One day maybe Sonar might catch up video wise but it's strength is Midi, softsynths,and major routing options for effects. Both are cool and I could not imagine not having both.

Love to make that music,as well I love to tweak,Make my own sample sets
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memlapse
New Member

9 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2008 :  01:54:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I dinked with cool edit several years ago when I was still doing voice-overs and other voice related stuff, but didn't use it for recording music. Since building my monster PC, I decided to give Sonar 7 Producer a try. Along with Adobe Audition (editing) and Reason, I have enough toys to play with for awhile. I'm using a Presonus Firebox for my interface and so far pretty happy with it. I have the latency as low as it will go and rarely get a pop. I'm still learning Sonar and have yet to take full advantage of its capabilities. At the moment, I'm working out the finer points of side chaining.
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otto
Platinum Member

2728 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2008 :  04:50:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We used Cool Edit Pro for the radio station, and I believe that app remains very popular with the radio broadcasters still. We ended up going with Vegas for our film work. That still seems like a good choice. My post dabblings with Vegas Audio, well, that was a short-lived playtime thing, and it opened up a cheap upgrade path for Vegas Video.

I was having so much trouble with getting decent audio performance on my computer, I ended up going for a rather elaborate Yamaha DSP Factory setup. I still have that set up on a WinXP computer, though the latency of the drivers has always been horrible. I use the thing for mixdowns and have ended up thinking of it as a rather gerry-rigged computer nerd version of a hardware DAWs. The whole thing cost way too much even bought at discount, because the price just continued to collapse even after blowout discounts. What annoys me the most about the design is that they don't have sealed headphone volume pots and they have dust noise in them on adjustment. I find that just intolerable by modern component standards. Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 and the DSP Factory had a cool relationship, though you could also use the thing in Cubase. The Yamaha folks always said it worked way better under Cubase. I've actually never tried it out with my Cubase SX3. I guess it's got DSP Factory support sitting in there waiting to be used. For about 2 years, I thought I had something pretty cool. Then it started to progressively turn into another gear bad joke, on my wallet. I've had a lot of bad jokes played on my wallet though. Ha ha ha.
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dB Mania
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77 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2008 :  09:50:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree, Sonar is the way to go. I might get Sonar HS6XL because it's cheap, great value and has nice instrument plugins, later on I may get something such as Sony Soundforge since it has iZotope and CD Architect included these alone adds up to great value compared to other apps for mastering. When I record I ensure all my tracks are clean at optimal levels therefor I would have no need for audio restoration.

I would love to get Audition 3 mainly because I know Adobe produces excellent quality apps, but who knows? maybe the next release (version.4) there may be additions such as excellent midi rec features and instrument plugin. If that was the case I would switch from Sonar to Audition.

I've heard a lot of great things about Sony Vegas, my Brother inlaw has Vegas and said that a producer in CA highly recommended it.

Anyone use Adobe Premiere Pro?
I'm familiar with Adobe products, I've use Photoshop, Illustrator and DreamWeaver for years! All excellent quality apps. I've seen the demo but not had hands on experience.

PC: Abit Pro35. CPU: Quad 3.0. Ram: 2.Gig. H/Drives: 2x Seagates (C:Apps, D:Audio). Audio/Midi Interface: Edirol FA-66. DAW: SONAR. VSTi: SonikSynth 2.1, SampleTank.2.5.XL. KitCore Deluxe. Addictive Drums. VST: Ozone.3, Ozone.4, Voxengo, Kjaerhus, Melodyne, T-RackS
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otto
Platinum Member

2728 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2008 :  3:05:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
dB Mania, I'm having trouble following your logic. Audition 3 has midi and VSTi, which is the point and big new features of version 3. As for Adobe making quality apps, they bought Cool Edit Pro and renamed it Audition. All they seem to have done was continue to fund the program development. The program really has almost nothing to do with Adobe other than that they own and fund the continued development. I think the same Cool Edit Pro development team works on Audition too. I'm happy they haven't messed the thing up royal or abandoned the program development. Sony buying Sonic Foundry, it's again a similar story. Maybe Sony ties in their products a bit more than Adobe is doing, but it's similar as a situation.

Do a search on Ebay for this: Adobe Audition 1.5 With Essential Multitrack Recording - you can buy this program with a Buy It Now feature for $6.99. The upgrade to version 3 is $99. It doesn't get much cheaper than that.

Edited by - otto on 04/05/2008 3:10:47 PM
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memlapse
New Member

9 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2008 :  5:44:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Otto is dead on with Adobe Audition. I have version 3 and am pleased to say that it doesn't have the typical bulk of the adobe product line. Based on the look, feel and functionality, they have stayed true to the development cycle. I use it mainly for tweaking individual wav files. It's powerful and feature rich, so I'm not even coming close to using its full capabilities.
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dB Mania
Member

77 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2008 :  6:02:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Otto

My apology! I misunderstood you. Just now I downloaded the Audition PDF manual I skipped to the midi section and read Audition can do midi (sequencer, edit grid, midi tools) and supports VST.

Thanks for the suggestion in regards to getting an earlier version then upgrade to 3 for $99. that's a brilliant idea :)

I know Audition use to be CoolEdit Pro by: Syntrillium which later became Audition when Adobe brought it out. Same with Dreamweaver and Flash which use to be owned by Macromedia was brought out by Adobe which is OK by me since I know Adobe does make and has always made excellent quality apps (Software) and their help files, documentation is excellent too.

PC: Abit Pro35. CPU: Quad 3.0. Ram: 2.Gig. H/Drives: 2x Seagates (C:Apps, D:Audio). Audio/Midi Interface: Edirol FA-66. DAW: SONAR. VSTi: SonikSynth 2.1, SampleTank.2.5.XL. KitCore Deluxe. Addictive Drums. VST: Ozone.3, Ozone.4, Voxengo, Kjaerhus, Melodyne, T-RackS

Edited by - dB Mania on 04/05/2008 6:06:02 PM
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dB Mania
Member

77 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2008 :  6:37:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi memlapse

RE: Audition = Powerful, feature rich!

Aww man you got me sold LOL!!

From viewing the demo site (Adobe.com), I like the Audition GUI, looks pretty good to me, simple and clear! I should not have too much trouble working with it because I've been using DAW's and hardware Sequencers (Roland, Korg and Ensoniq) for decades. . . . I've used more complex apps such as earlier versions of Cubase and those hardware sequencers with tiny edit screens LOL!! Moving onto PC editing, rec and midi on a nice large screen is like moving to paradise for me.

I also have and use Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator and Dreamweaver frequently for web development and site updates although those apps are quite deep n complex (particularly P/Shop and Illustrator) I love the workflow and integration.

I have Sonar 4HSXL and WaveLab in storage all in one big box, in another country. Ah! I can't be bothered paying the ridiculously expensive overseas-freight and because I plan to get new apps soon.

BTW, do you use other DAW's besides Audition?

PC: Abit Pro35. CPU: Quad 3.0. Ram: 2.Gig. H/Drives: 2x Seagates (C:Apps, D:Audio). Audio/Midi Interface: Edirol FA-66. DAW: SONAR. VSTi: SonikSynth 2.1, SampleTank.2.5.XL. KitCore Deluxe. Addictive Drums. VST: Ozone.3, Ozone.4, Voxengo, Kjaerhus, Melodyne, T-RackS

Edited by - dB Mania on 04/05/2008 6:38:36 PM
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