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 Vocoder?
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StudioJay
New Member

Trinidad and Tobago
17 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2008 :  11:50:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  [Reply to Topic]  | [Reply w/ Quote]
Hi every one,
I have been using the pentagon as a vocoder after reading an article on sound on sound magazine describing how to set it up. However, I can't seem to get
recognisable speech from the vocoder. I can get the vocoder sound as I speek in to the mike and play the keyboard. Can some one please explain with an
example if possible how to make it say/sing words? Thanks in advance for any help.
Jason



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garrigus
Moderator

USA
14514 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2008 :  12:05:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit garrigus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Jason,

You usually don't get recognizable speech out of a vocoder... well, maybe slightly recognizable, but it's not usually like a robot voice where you can tell what is being said clearly. It's more of a musical effect. If you're getting the sound as you speak and play on the keyboard, then you're doing it right.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - http://www.garrigus.com
* Cakewalk SONAR Video Tutorials: https://www.youtube.com/user/ScottGarrigus?sub_confirmation=1
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks
* Publisher of the DigiFreq music recording newsletter: http://www.digifreq.com/
* Publisher of the NewTechReview consumer tech newsletter: http://www.newtechreview.com/
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lawapa
Moderator

USA
2106 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2008 :  7:55:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With my experiments working with Vocater from NI I did notice something important. The synth patch plays a very important part in the process.

Predominate vocal frequencies must be present in the sound you modulate or speech, Coherent vocal sounds are not possible.

Now Pentagon is a very cool synth. That said standout vocals with a less than ideal patch depends on the number of separate bands being modulated simultaneously. Sounds complex and it is.

Please note that the ADSR of the patch along with the many self modulating possibilities of pentagon might interfere with a stand out vocoder sound. A patch suitable for vocording is harsh/distorted sounding with no effects and A FAST ATTACK and might not be usable outside of vocal modulation.

Vocator can modulate as many as 256 narrow frequency bands I believe. This allows it to modulate less than perfect sounds. The above does apply to vocator though. If no vocal frequencies are present little or no modulation can take place.

Love to make that music,as well I love to tweak,Make my own sample sets

Edited by - lawapa on 02/02/2008 8:22:23 PM
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StudioJay
New Member

Trinidad and Tobago
17 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2008 :  02:58:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,
Thanks a lot.

     I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out. If I  may ask another question, I read that pentagon is a 24 band vocoder. However, what controls
the different bands? For example, after I choose a patch and have audio being vocoded, how do I mess around with the different bands to see what effect
they have on the sound? For example, how do I change band 1, then band 3 etc? I am thinking that I can use act to control the different bands from my control
surface. Thanks again.
Jason
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lawapa
Moderator

USA
2106 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2008 :  08:54:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The way a vocoder works you do control Band 1/2/3 and so on but not directly. You can't directly control the individual bands except with the input. The side chain input breaks down into 24 individual bands of frequencies centered around the vocal range and then modulates each band dependent on the same side chain input. You can of course use different sounds other than vocals, but you will notice that because this process has been optimized for vocal sounds the modulation effect will be not as pronounced.

You can arp a sound with a percussive loop.

Love to make that music,as well I love to tweak,Make my own sample sets
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firefox
Gold Member

USA
1459 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2008 :  09:57:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit firefox's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You can also eq your modulator before it goes in. The pentagon has a vocoder?

Edited by - firefox on 02/03/2008 10:01:00 AM
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lawapa
Moderator

USA
2106 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2008 :  11:39:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes it does. I've not used it as I use Vocator which is a much different animal altogether.

Using eq on the input will enhance or amplify the vocorder effect as it imparts this to the sound.

Think of you mouth as a real time filter which modulates the sound your vocal cords make. This modulation is what is isolated and then imparted to the sound your modulating.

Think of a harmonica player cupping his harp in his hands and then making the harp sound cry by opening and closing his hand. This is what is being done in a round about way using narrow band filters.

Guitar talk boxes use the mouth and a mic in the same way but use the guitar sound instead of your vocal cords.

Love to make that music,as well I love to tweak,Make my own sample sets
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firefox
Gold Member

USA
1459 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2008 :  12:01:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit firefox's Homepage  Reply with Quote
so how do you set it up to use it as a vocoder? insert it on an audio track or something? are you talking about sonar 7-I don't have..
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lawapa
Moderator

USA
2106 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2008 :  6:09:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have not used Pentagon as a vocoder but it has worked for others.

How to set up the sidechain input, what will modulate the patch is what is the trick, I'm betting the audio track has to be in Sonar first, a vocal or some other type of sound but as to how you set it up either in the audio track or the Pentagon interface is the big mystery for me.

Love to make that music,as well I love to tweak,Make my own sample sets
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garrigus
Moderator

USA
14514 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2008 :  6:52:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit garrigus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
1. Create an audio track and add the Pentagon as an effect to the Fx bin.

2. Create a MIDI track, and assign its output to the Pentagon.

3. Assign the Input of the audio track to the soundcard input to which you have your mic connected.

4. Turn Input Echo for the audio track.

5. Click one of the bank letters at the top of the Pentagon window and then right-click anywhere in the windows to choose a patch.

6. Click on the Pentagon I logo, and set Voice Modulator to On in the menu.

7. For a more vocal effect, click the Pentago logo and set the Formant Filter to On in the menu.

Now start playing your MIDI keyboard and speaking into your mic.

You can also record into the audio track and use that recorded audio to drive the vocoder.

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - http://www.garrigus.com
* Cakewalk SONAR Video Tutorials: https://www.youtube.com/user/ScottGarrigus?sub_confirmation=1
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks
* Publisher of the DigiFreq music recording newsletter: http://www.digifreq.com/
* Publisher of the NewTechReview consumer tech newsletter: http://www.newtechreview.com/
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firefox
Gold Member

USA
1459 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2008 :  11:45:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit firefox's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks Scott, never knew that was there. I'll have to check it out.
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