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Date: 11/20/2005 | Time: 9:12:04 AM | Author: GGB  
Message: Acoustic Guitar Pickups / Mics
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Ok guys,

It would be appreciated if we ran this topic into the ground as I would love to hear all the options and problems that could happen...

I am scheduled to do some acoustic gigs in a couple of weeks and use a Washburn acoustic that is a mid grade acoustic. The problem I am having is that when I bend the high e, I tend to bend it off the piezo pickup causing it to cutout at a certain bend point. I don't want to spend a bunch of money on the guitar, as it just isn't worth it, but can't have this type of issue.

Have thought about using an actual mic on stage, but that could have it's own issues as well.

So if there is anyone out there that has some solutions, as creative as they may be, I am willing to entertain them...

GGB
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Date: 11/20/2005 | Time: 10:25:22 AM | Author: lawapa  
Message: Acoustic Guitar Pickups / Mics


I use an Ovation Adamas. And I have never had that problem but how about a inhole pickup. These are like electric guitar pickups and I wonder if you'd loose your bend using it. You could just use this live. I had one for years on a blond Gibson J 200 copy made by Alverez. The sound was Jazzy compaired to a piezo. But it was useable. There are several makers and the sound of these are better now over what I had.
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Date: 11/20/2005 | Time: 10:37:51 AM | Author: Ken  
Message: Acoustic Guitar Pickups / Mics


I love Washburn's. Even as they can be classified a mid-grade acoustic I think Washburn's are some of the best acoustic bargains out there. I have a D-9 for instance that cost $179 (w/case) and it's one of the most comfortable I've played that has all the characteristics of some guitars costing 3 times as much. To re-iterate...SOME.

Your cheapest solution would be a surface mounted Transducer [disk] that you can blend into your mix onstage. And since it's not a very expensive guitar and has little resale value you may not mind sticking a transducer to the soundboard. The Fishman SBT-E is a bargain at $70 and highly regarded. Cheaper t-pup's are out there by other's like Dean Markley, etc.

The L.R. Baggs Ribbon Txducer should solve your problem too. Ribbons don't lose the high's like piezo's can IMO.

Internal mount mic kits will be your Ultimate solution if you'd care to invest in that. I like the sound of the Fishman Blender systems even though internally mounted electrets can sound brittle sometimes they're seldom as sterile and brittle as piezo's. Again, just my opinion.

You might consider adding some nice tube compression just for that song, using a higher than normal ratio, and using makeup gain to reel the dynamics of those dramatically bent notes back into the mix. You may have to lighten up your string attack in other areas of the song to compensate but overall you'd actually bring a more sonically intimate experience to the audience with that technique.

Great topic GGB.



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Date: 11/20/2005 | Time: 11:21:22 AM | Author: Paul  
Message: Acoustic Guitar Pickups / Mics


GGB , get yourself a good in hole pickup . Then plug both the guitar and the pickup into the amp . Put your effects on just one of the two pickups . Then blend the 2 to perfection . You'll probably use that setup for a long time .
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Date: 11/20/2005 | Time: 1:39:11 PM | Author: GGB  
Message: Acoustic Guitar Pickups / Mics


Thanks guys, but certainly don't stop...

Ken - I've had this washburn for about 12 years and it's a great live guitar for the covers and pop stuff I am using it for... very large and aggressive sound, but not very smooth or warm.

Paul - you said 'in-hole'. he he he. I like that setup, but don't know if I would like 2 piezos. Might think of dropping a cheap transducer mic or something into the guitar and plending those for some warmth...

HHHHmmmmmmm...

Truth is, I don't want to spend much money on this guitar, but wouldn't mind a little drilling or experimenting if it is required...

GGB
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Date: 11/20/2005 | Time: 5:05:54 PM | Author: lawapa  
Message: Acoustic Guitar Pickups / Mics


When I had my in hole PuP installed the plug was the tail pin. Now a tail pin is usually just a screw in so they do have to enlarge the hole and go through. But the pin looks nice and not out of place. It blends well.
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Date: 11/20/2005 | Time: 6:09:11 PM | Author: Paul  
Message: Acoustic Guitar Pickups / Mics


You could get an under the saddle pup for around $50 .
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Date: 11/21/2005 | Time: 8:59:37 AM | Author: Ken  
Message: Acoustic Guitar Pickups / Mics


GGB,

If you have a volume pedal you may be able to swell your volume at that point in the performance as well.

Does the not die? Or does it just disappear off the radar for a bit until you bring the string back to it's resting position?

Sometimes in the studio with extreme bent notes that bring the string out of the range of the pole pieces I'll actually tickle the string a bit (close to the bridge) with my finger tip just to very subtley keep the note singing in the background until I 'un-bend' it. Should work just as well for acoustic guitar.
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Date: 11/21/2005 | Time: 10:58:16 AM | Author: GGB  
Message: Acoustic Guitar Pickups / Mics


Ken,

The pickup that is in the guitar is I believe a ceramic located at the brigde and the strings actually rest on it.

When I bend, it moves the string from its resting place on the ceramic and, well, the note falls completely off radar until I bring it back down and it falls back onto the sweet spot.

I was thinking of really notching / filing the ceramic to keep the string in place, but don't know exactly what all that will affect.

GGB
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Date: 11/21/2005 | Time: 11:19:39 AM | Author: Ken  
Message: Acoustic Guitar Pickups / Mics


If I understand pickup technology correctly it shouldn't affect the pickup at all. I could be wrong but I don't think so.

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Date: 11/21/2005 | Time: 3:49:02 PM | Author: Den Hollinden  
Message: Acoustic Guitar Pickups / Mics


>Have thought about using an actual mic on stage, but that could have it's own issues as well.<

Okay, I'll bite. : ) I'm curious to see what issues you have in mind. Seems to me the most straightforward solution would be to just plug in say an SM57 to blend with or replace the signal coming from your pickup. I think a lot of people would prefer that arrangement even if you weren't trying to troubleshoot a problem with the pickup.
     Den
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Date: 11/21/2005 | Time: 4:08:08 PM | Author: Ken  
Message: Acoustic Guitar Pickups / Mics


It sounds like the pickup itself though is physically killing the note by way of touch and choking vibration alltogether, in which case a mic wouldn't help either. SM57's are great for live acoustic BTW Den, I agree with you there. Good straight forward tone.

What the heck kind of bridge pickup is it anyway GGB? You never said. Any pictures? Is it a bridge saddle that happens to also be a pickup? Or is the piezo installed under the bridge saddle?

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Date: 11/21/2005 | Time: 4:12:15 PM | Author: Den Hollinden  
Message: Acoustic Guitar Pickups / Mics


That could be, Ken. The way I understood it, it was the string's proximity to the pickup (or lack thereof) that was the problem--tree falling in the woods kind of problem. : )
     Den
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Date: 11/21/2005 | Time: 6:28:41 PM | Author: Paul  
Message: Acoustic Guitar Pickups / Mics


Hey GGB , I have a solution for ya . Quit playing that damn headbanger metal crap and quit bending your strings over a step and a half . Damn younguns and their chunka chunka crap . You know you can't even understand the words don't ya ? But seriously , you should look at cleaning your ears . Ear wax does filter out most of the high frequecies . :)
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Date: 11/21/2005 | Time: 7:11:52 PM | Author: lawapa  
Message: Acoustic Guitar Pickups / Mics


Paul lets just go in and buy him a ring slide. Then he can slide it up a step and a half.

If his choice is headbangin/metal thats ok fine by me. And think nobody does slide work in metal so he will stand out as new/different ;)+)

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